Comments on: The Conservatives’ new European Parliament Group: On the brink of collapse already? http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/06/the-conservatives-new-european-parliament-group-on-the-brink-of-collapse-already/ In search of a European identity Sat, 07 Jan 2012 12:16:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Robin http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/06/the-conservatives-new-european-parliament-group-on-the-brink-of-collapse-already/comment-page-1/#comment-62720 Robin Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:55:24 +0000 http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2318#comment-62720 Thankyou Nosemonkey for linking to that post. I`m looking at it again in another light, I`m sure you`ll agree that this is a big problem for you EUrophiles. If we take all the different strands of EUrosceptics and put them into two camps with blurred boundaries,it should be those who are EUrosceptic because of a matter of principle, and those who become EUrosceptic because of what they see in practise, or their experiences of it. (I` not sure where I am, but as I say the dividing lines are blurred ). Once someone goes into the second camp, he/she may start taking a hard look at the project.If he/she see more of the same happening to others, some of the sleight of hand tricks to force through new treaties, and the governance being twisted to try to keep a lid on things, then he/she moves from being discommoded, to dubious to confounded to distrusting to hostile. The EUrophile side cannot expect these emotions to go just by giving us Glittering Generalities (sorry for those words but that is the truth )or minor benefits.A harder sell is needed. BTW is it easier to change the senior civil servants so that they get the best from the EU, or leave the EU altogether ? It looks like the civil service is the enemy of both EUrophile and EUrosceptic. Thankyou Nosemonkey for linking to that post.
I`m looking at it again in another light, I`m sure you`ll agree that this is a big problem for you EUrophiles.
If we take all the different strands of EUrosceptics and put them into two camps with blurred boundaries,it should be those who are EUrosceptic because of a matter of principle, and those who become EUrosceptic because of what they see in practise, or their experiences of it. (I` not sure where I am, but as I say the dividing lines are blurred ).
Once someone goes into the second camp, he/she may start taking a hard look at the project.If he/she see more of the same happening to others, some of the sleight of hand tricks to force through new treaties, and the governance being twisted to try to keep a lid on things, then he/she moves from being discommoded, to dubious to confounded to distrusting to hostile.
The EUrophile side cannot expect these emotions to go just by giving us Glittering Generalities (sorry for those words but that is the truth )or minor benefits.A harder sell is needed.
BTW is it easier to change the senior civil servants so that they get the best from the EU, or leave the EU altogether ?
It looks like the civil service is the enemy of both EUrophile and EUrosceptic.

]]> By: Increasing disquiet surrounds new centre-right EP group | Nosemonkey’s EUtopia http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/06/the-conservatives-new-european-parliament-group-on-the-brink-of-collapse-already/comment-page-1/#comment-62718 Increasing disquiet surrounds new centre-right EP group | Nosemonkey’s EUtopia Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:00:34 +0000 http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2318#comment-62718 [...] with one MEP leaving and another joining, exposing this new British Conservatives-led group as a fairly fragile alliance – now we again have renewed concerns being voiced: This time from among the British [...] [...] with one MEP leaving and another joining, exposing this new British Conservatives-led group as a fairly fragile alliance – now we again have renewed concerns being voiced: This time from among the British [...]

]]> By: Alex http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/06/the-conservatives-new-european-parliament-group-on-the-brink-of-collapse-already/comment-page-1/#comment-62717 Alex Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:16:29 +0000 http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2318#comment-62717 Given that forming a group in the EP presses the button on quite a bit of funding, staff, office space, debating time and committee seats, I wonder what the side deal is with the various parties of whom one member only has joined the Tories? It seems like they could be in a position to lend the Tories a member in exchange for a consideration, whether of resources or of votes. Given that forming a group in the EP presses the button on quite a bit of funding, staff, office space, debating time and committee seats, I wonder what the side deal is with the various parties of whom one member only has joined the Tories? It seems like they could be in a position to lend the Tories a member in exchange for a consideration, whether of resources or of votes.

]]> By: Nosemonkey http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/06/the-conservatives-new-european-parliament-group-on-the-brink-of-collapse-already/comment-page-1/#comment-62715 Nosemonkey Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:48:18 +0000 http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2318#comment-62715 Agreed - it's not a particularly good system. At some point I really must write that post I've been meaning to do about what a proper EU parliament should look like (assuming, of course, that there should be one at all - which is a bit of a moot point...) In the meantime (and utterly unrelatedly) I stumbled across <a href="http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=1306" rel="nofollow">this post from three years ago</a> earlier today, and thought of you - rather a nice indication of where our views align. Considering your views on the UK's civil service's incompetence when it comes to EU legislation, it may well be worth you having a gander at the <a href="http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/bre/reviewing-regulation/eu-legislation/page44103.html" rel="nofollow">Davidson Review</a> in more detail... I doubt it'll tell you much you don't already know, but may confirm a few things. Agreed – it’s not a particularly good system. At some point I really must write that post I’ve been meaning to do about what a proper EU parliament should look like (assuming, of course, that there should be one at all – which is a bit of a moot point…)

In the meantime (and utterly unrelatedly) I stumbled across this post from three years ago earlier today, and thought of you – rather a nice indication of where our views align. Considering your views on the UK’s civil service’s incompetence when it comes to EU legislation, it may well be worth you having a gander at the Davidson Review in more detail… I doubt it’ll tell you much you don’t already know, but may confirm a few things.

]]> By: Robin http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/06/the-conservatives-new-european-parliament-group-on-the-brink-of-collapse-already/comment-page-1/#comment-62714 Robin Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:55:02 +0000 http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2318#comment-62714 This does not show a good side to the EU Parliament. These political parties get (taxpayers) funds anyway, and to be bribed to form alliances with others to get more shekels shows a seamier side to it all. The funding should be cut, not increased. This does not show a good side to the EU Parliament. These political parties get (taxpayers) funds anyway, and to be bribed to form alliances with others to get more shekels shows a seamier side to it all.
The funding should be cut, not increased.

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