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	<title>Comments on: Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/</link>
	<description>In search of a European identity</description>
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		<title>By: William Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/comment-page-1/#comment-62291</link>
		<dc:creator>William Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2147#comment-62291</guid>
		<description>copied and pasted from a nosemonkey post.
Likewise, you keep insisting that “not a single power has been returned”, and yet since Maastricht - and in every subsequent treaty (passed or not) since, the subsidiarity principle has been enshrined in what the EU is doing. It hasn’t always worked as I would like, for sure, but this means that - by EU treaty law - decisions are meant to be taken *at the most appropriate level

ALL FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, of course.  Europol, highly paid and untouchable.  Just waiting for some statelet to have an emergency, get your gear on Franz they are rioting at the G20 conference in London, and they are all wearing burquas so the British police won&#039;t deal with it. For your own good.
European Defence Force, just in case, grrrr did I hear a bear?.  Sorry mister bear did my expansionism step on your toes?  All for your own good.  Eurojust and European Arrest Warrants, ME? I was never ever in your country, so I couldn&#039;t have dropped that chocolate wrapper.  What I&#039;ve already been convicted?  All for your own good.  Emails and telephone databases, all for your own good.  ID cards, all for your own good.  Shared databases, no oversight, ask and all your details will be given. All for your own good.  
They are building the infrastructure of a superstate, and trying to behave like one, and you think they don&#039;t want one???????????????  One of us is mad, and I have a certificate to say it ain&#039;t me, any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>copied and pasted from a nosemonkey post.<br />
Likewise, you keep insisting that “not a single power has been returned”, and yet since Maastricht &#8211; and in every subsequent treaty (passed or not) since, the subsidiarity principle has been enshrined in what the EU is doing. It hasn’t always worked as I would like, for sure, but this means that &#8211; by EU treaty law &#8211; decisions are meant to be taken *at the most appropriate level</p>
<p>ALL FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, of course.  Europol, highly paid and untouchable.  Just waiting for some statelet to have an emergency, get your gear on Franz they are rioting at the G20 conference in London, and they are all wearing burquas so the British police won&#8217;t deal with it. For your own good.<br />
European Defence Force, just in case, grrrr did I hear a bear?.  Sorry mister bear did my expansionism step on your toes?  All for your own good.  Eurojust and European Arrest Warrants, ME? I was never ever in your country, so I couldn&#8217;t have dropped that chocolate wrapper.  What I&#8217;ve already been convicted?  All for your own good.  Emails and telephone databases, all for your own good.  ID cards, all for your own good.  Shared databases, no oversight, ask and all your details will be given. All for your own good.<br />
They are building the infrastructure of a superstate, and trying to behave like one, and you think they don&#8217;t want one???????????????  One of us is mad, and I have a certificate to say it ain&#8217;t me, any more.</p>
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		<title>By: Nosemonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Models for an EU superstate?</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/comment-page-1/#comment-62170</link>
		<dc:creator>Nosemonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Models for an EU superstate?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 15:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2147#comment-62170</guid>
		<description>[...] series so far: - The danger of Jean Monnet - Why EU superstate conspiracy theories are nonsense - Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate - EU competence creep, the spectre of the superstate, and how governments actually work As I’ve [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] series so far: &#8211; The danger of Jean Monnet &#8211; Why EU superstate conspiracy theories are nonsense &#8211; Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate &#8211; EU competence creep, the spectre of the superstate, and how governments actually work As I’ve [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Models for an EU superstate?&#160;&#124;&#160;Nosemonkey&#8217;s EUtopia</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/comment-page-1/#comment-62158</link>
		<dc:creator>Models for an EU superstate?&#160;&#124;&#160;Nosemonkey&#8217;s EUtopia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2147#comment-62158</guid>
		<description>[...] The danger of Jean Monnet - Why EU superstate conspiracy theories are nonsense - Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate - EU competence creep, the spectre of the superstate, and how governments actually [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The danger of Jean Monnet &#8211; Why EU superstate conspiracy theories are nonsense &#8211; Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate &#8211; EU competence creep, the spectre of the superstate, and how governments actually [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ChristenUnie omarmt nationalisme - Sargasso</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/comment-page-1/#comment-62155</link>
		<dc:creator>ChristenUnie omarmt nationalisme - Sargasso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:01:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2147#comment-62155</guid>
		<description>[...] in simplistisch oranje-blauw zien is hier een discussie op het euroblog NoseMonkey&#8217;s EUtopia: Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate. Over de werkelijke voortgang van de Europese eenwording (die na het verdrag van Maastricht er [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in simplistisch oranje-blauw zien is hier een discussie op het euroblog NoseMonkey&#8217;s EUtopia: Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate. Over de werkelijke voortgang van de Europese eenwording (die na het verdrag van Maastricht er [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Blaat</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/comment-page-1/#comment-62141</link>
		<dc:creator>Blaat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2147#comment-62141</guid>
		<description>“There is an absolute necessity in making sure that jam produced in Romania is of same quality and standards as jam produced in the United Kingdom. It would not be proper if Romanian companies could produce jam that didn’t meet British production standards, yet would be able to be freely bought and sold within the United Kingdom.”

I believe the idea is not have an equal standard but have a minimum standard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“There is an absolute necessity in making sure that jam produced in Romania is of same quality and standards as jam produced in the United Kingdom. It would not be proper if Romanian companies could produce jam that didn’t meet British production standards, yet would be able to be freely bought and sold within the United Kingdom.”</p>
<p>I believe the idea is not have an equal standard but have a minimum standard.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim  Worstall</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/comment-page-1/#comment-62138</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim  Worstall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 06:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2147#comment-62138</guid>
		<description>&quot;There is an absolute necessity in making sure that jam produced in Romania is of same quality and standards as jam produced in the United Kingdom. It would not be proper if Romanian companies could produce jam that didn’t meet British production standards, yet would be able to be freely bought and sold within the United Kingdom.&quot;

And there we have exactly the problem. Producers compete in markets precisely and exactly on the basis of the quality of their offering., as well as upon price, design and so on.

If you don&#039;t understand this then you don&#039;t understand markets. As those responsible for the Single Market clearly do not when they trot out this trope that everyone must be producing to the same standard.

And thus my anger with the whole process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is an absolute necessity in making sure that jam produced in Romania is of same quality and standards as jam produced in the United Kingdom. It would not be proper if Romanian companies could produce jam that didn’t meet British production standards, yet would be able to be freely bought and sold within the United Kingdom.&#8221;</p>
<p>And there we have exactly the problem. Producers compete in markets precisely and exactly on the basis of the quality of their offering., as well as upon price, design and so on.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t understand this then you don&#8217;t understand markets. As those responsible for the Single Market clearly do not when they trot out this trope that everyone must be producing to the same standard.</p>
<p>And thus my anger with the whole process.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/comment-page-1/#comment-62137</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 04:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2147#comment-62137</guid>
		<description>&gt;Maybe the jam directive has a sensible rationale behind it

It does. We have a single market. Completely integrated. More unified than the United States internal market was just 50 years ago.

Every single thing that is produced in one EU country can be sold in another. With a couple of exceptions of course (cultural, health reasons, etc).

There is an absolute necessity in making sure that jam produced in Romania is of same quality and standards as jam produced in the United Kingdom. It would not be proper if Romanian companies could produce jam that didn&#039;t meet British production standards, yet would be able to be freely bought and sold within the United Kingdom. Ultimately it is in the interest of both countries to make sure that regulations, standards and definitions are unified and coherent with one another.

When people pick apart the EU and only look at a single items they don&#039;t look at the big picture and how things are related to one another. They don&#039;t consider the context of history or its intent. As an example: 1) We have a single market 2) as it&#039;d be wrong for goods to have more rights than human beings, we allow humans to move around just as freely as well 3) We have to establish the Europol who help transfer information and monitoring, because criminals can take advantage of the single market freedom too. 

Yet instead of that rational explanation above  - we end up with crazy nutters who roam all over the internet and in the UKIP (and their pan-European counterparts) who believe that the Europol is some kind of an internal FBI that goes around and carries out secret assassinations...When in reality Europol is confined within a single building and all they do is just transfer Microsoft Excel and Word documents between country police HQs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Maybe the jam directive has a sensible rationale behind it</p>
<p>It does. We have a single market. Completely integrated. More unified than the United States internal market was just 50 years ago.</p>
<p>Every single thing that is produced in one EU country can be sold in another. With a couple of exceptions of course (cultural, health reasons, etc).</p>
<p>There is an absolute necessity in making sure that jam produced in Romania is of same quality and standards as jam produced in the United Kingdom. It would not be proper if Romanian companies could produce jam that didn&#8217;t meet British production standards, yet would be able to be freely bought and sold within the United Kingdom. Ultimately it is in the interest of both countries to make sure that regulations, standards and definitions are unified and coherent with one another.</p>
<p>When people pick apart the EU and only look at a single items they don&#8217;t look at the big picture and how things are related to one another. They don&#8217;t consider the context of history or its intent. As an example: 1) We have a single market 2) as it&#8217;d be wrong for goods to have more rights than human beings, we allow humans to move around just as freely as well 3) We have to establish the Europol who help transfer information and monitoring, because criminals can take advantage of the single market freedom too. </p>
<p>Yet instead of that rational explanation above  &#8211; we end up with crazy nutters who roam all over the internet and in the UKIP (and their pan-European counterparts) who believe that the Europol is some kind of an internal FBI that goes around and carries out secret assassinations&#8230;When in reality Europol is confined within a single building and all they do is just transfer Microsoft Excel and Word documents between country police HQs.</p>
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		<title>By: Nosemonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; EU competence creep, the spectre of the superstate, and how governments actually work</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/comment-page-1/#comment-62121</link>
		<dc:creator>Nosemonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; EU competence creep, the spectre of the superstate, and how governments actually work</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2147#comment-62121</guid>
		<description>[...] our last little discussion of the likelihood of an EU superstate (in amongst and partially as an offshoot of the rather silly sidetrack about jam), Josef noted that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] our last little discussion of the likelihood of an EU superstate (in amongst and partially as an offshoot of the rather silly sidetrack about jam), Josef noted that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: EU competence creep, the spectre of the superstate, and how governments actually work&#160;&#124;&#160;Nosemonkey&#8217;s EUtopia</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/comment-page-1/#comment-62118</link>
		<dc:creator>EU competence creep, the spectre of the superstate, and how governments actually work&#160;&#124;&#160;Nosemonkey&#8217;s EUtopia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2147#comment-62118</guid>
		<description>[...] our last little discussion of the likelihood of an EU superstate (in amongst and partially as an offshoot of the rather silly sidetrack about jam), Josef noted that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] our last little discussion of the likelihood of an EU superstate (in amongst and partially as an offshoot of the rather silly sidetrack about jam), Josef noted that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/four-points-and-a-question-for-eurosceptics-who-believe-in-the-advancing-eu-superstate/comment-page-1/#comment-62116</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2147#comment-62116</guid>
		<description>If the EU has stood still it`s not because the colleagues want it to stop. If they were as tuned in to the proles desires they wouldn`t keep having new treaties and problems with referend(a)ums.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the EU has stood still it`s not because the colleagues want it to stop. If they were as tuned in to the proles desires they wouldn`t keep having new treaties and problems with referend(a)ums.</p>
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