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	<title>Comments on: Exclusive: The danger of Jean Monnet</title>
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	<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/</link>
	<description>In search of a European identity</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 07 Jan 2012 12:16:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: EUs Blog: &#8220;EU Keine Echte Demokratie - Sondern Eine Bürokratie&#8221; &#187; Euro-med</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/comment-page-1/#comment-62281</link>
		<dc:creator>EUs Blog: &#8220;EU Keine Echte Demokratie - Sondern Eine Bürokratie&#8221; &#187; Euro-med</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2137#comment-62281</guid>
		<description>[...] bekommen haben &#8211; und zwar aus schmutzigen Propaganda-Gr&#252;nden: &quot;Es wird keinen Frieden in Europa geben, wenn die Staaten wieder auf der Grundlage der nationalen Souver&#228;nit&#228;t konstituiert [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] bekommen haben &ndash; und zwar aus schmutzigen Propaganda-Gr&uuml;nden: &quot;Es wird keinen Frieden in Europa geben, wenn die Staaten wieder auf der Grundlage der nationalen Souver&auml;nit&auml;t konstituiert [...]</p>
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		<title>By: EU´s Blog: &#8220;EU No Genuine Democracy - But A Bureaucracy&#8221; &#187; Euro-med</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/comment-page-1/#comment-62279</link>
		<dc:creator>EU´s Blog: &#8220;EU No Genuine Democracy - But A Bureaucracy&#8221; &#187; Euro-med</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2137#comment-62279</guid>
		<description>[...] it all wrong by misquoting St. Jean Monnet for dirty propagandistic reasons:  &#8220;There will be no peace in Europe, if the states are reconstituted on the basis of national sovereignty&#8230; &#8230;The European [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it all wrong by misquoting St. Jean Monnet for dirty propagandistic reasons:  &ldquo;There will be no peace in Europe, if the states are reconstituted on the basis of national sovereignty&hellip; &#8230;The European [...]</p>
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		<title>By: EUs Blog: &#8220;EU Ikke Ægte Demokrati Men Et Bureaukrati&#8221; &#187; Euro-med</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/comment-page-1/#comment-62277</link>
		<dc:creator>EUs Blog: &#8220;EU Ikke Ægte Demokrati Men Et Bureaukrati&#8221; &#187; Euro-med</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2137#comment-62277</guid>
		<description>[...] halsen ved&#160;fejlcitering af St. Jean Monnet&#160;af beskidte propagandagrunde: &quot;Der bliver ikke fred i Europa, hvis staterne rekonstitueres p&#229; grundlag af den nationale suver&#230;nitet &#8230; De [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] halsen ved&nbsp;fejlcitering af St. Jean Monnet&nbsp;af beskidte propagandagrunde: &quot;Der bliver ikke fred i Europa, hvis staterne rekonstitueres p&aring; grundlag af den nationale suver&aelig;nitet &#8230; De [...]</p>
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		<title>By: garfy</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/comment-page-1/#comment-62244</link>
		<dc:creator>garfy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2137#comment-62244</guid>
		<description>everybody should read - &quot;faits et chroniques interdits au public&quot; by. Pierre de Villemarest;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>everybody should read &#8211; &#8220;faits et chroniques interdits au public&#8221; by. Pierre de Villemarest;</p>
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		<title>By: Nosemonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Models for an EU superstate?</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/comment-page-1/#comment-62173</link>
		<dc:creator>Nosemonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Models for an EU superstate?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 22:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2137#comment-62173</guid>
		<description>[...]   Posted by nosemonkey on 07/04/09    For those coming in late, the superstate series so far: - The danger of Jean Monnet - Why EU superstate conspiracy theories are nonsense - Four points and a question for eurosceptics [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]   Posted by nosemonkey on 07/04/09    For those coming in late, the superstate series so far: &#8211; The danger of Jean Monnet &#8211; Why EU superstate conspiracy theories are nonsense &#8211; Four points and a question for eurosceptics [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Models for an EU superstate?&#160;&#124;&#160;Nosemonkey&#8217;s EUtopia</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/comment-page-1/#comment-62156</link>
		<dc:creator>Models for an EU superstate?&#160;&#124;&#160;Nosemonkey&#8217;s EUtopia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 11:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2137#comment-62156</guid>
		<description>[...] The danger of Jean Monnet - Why EU superstate conspiracy theories are nonsense - Four points and a question for eurosceptics [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The danger of Jean Monnet &#8211; Why EU superstate conspiracy theories are nonsense &#8211; Four points and a question for eurosceptics [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nosemonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/comment-page-1/#comment-62093</link>
		<dc:creator>Nosemonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 08:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2137#comment-62093</guid>
		<description>[...] one, so let’s keep at it. Some very good discussion is still raging away in the comments to my Jean Monnet and EU superstate posts, and Ken’s come back with a new post at EU Realist, at which I’ve just [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] one, so let’s keep at it. Some very good discussion is still raging away in the comments to my Jean Monnet and EU superstate posts, and Ken’s come back with a new post at EU Realist, at which I’ve just [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nosemonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why EU superstate conspiracy theories are nonsense</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/comment-page-1/#comment-62092</link>
		<dc:creator>Nosemonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Why EU superstate conspiracy theories are nonsense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 08:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2137#comment-62092</guid>
		<description>[...]   Posted by nosemonkey on 26/03/09    My jokey post on the “danger” of EU founding father Jean Monnet prompted a response from the usually well-intentioned and often thought-provoking eurosceptic Ken [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]   Posted by nosemonkey on 26/03/09    My jokey post on the “danger” of EU founding father Jean Monnet prompted a response from the usually well-intentioned and often thought-provoking eurosceptic Ken [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate&#160;&#124;&#160;Nosemonkey&#8217;s EUtopia</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/comment-page-1/#comment-62067</link>
		<dc:creator>Four points and a question for eurosceptics who believe in the advancing EU superstate&#160;&#124;&#160;Nosemonkey&#8217;s EUtopia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2137#comment-62067</guid>
		<description>[...] so let&#8217;s keep at it. Some very good discussion is still raging away in the comments to my Jean Monnet and EU superstate posts, and Ken&#8217;s come back with a new post at EU Realist, at which [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] so let&#8217;s keep at it. Some very good discussion is still raging away in the comments to my Jean Monnet and EU superstate posts, and Ken&#8217;s come back with a new post at EU Realist, at which [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Meenagh</title>
		<link>http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/03/exclusive-the-danger-of-jean-monnet/comment-page-1/#comment-62061</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Meenagh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/?p=2137#comment-62061</guid>
		<description>The sections in Alan Fimister&#039;s work on Schumann dealing with the lengths Schumann went to to get the coal and steel community established are almost comic. Schumann viewed the years since Napoleon in terms of France trying to get its hands on the Saarland and a frontier on the Rhine. He thought that any state that could would be the Great Power of Europe, and the world--a bit like Norman Stone&#039;s quip that &#039;Russia plus a Ukraine is an America&#039;. So, he submitted a draft to the French PM when he was too tired to read it; got Adenauer to pre-emptively approve it; encouraged a pointless &#039;Atlantic Council&#039; discussion at cabinet to divert everyone, made the coal and steel community a technical proposal before lunch then announced it to masses of press just after dessert. Priceless.

Schumann hadn&#039;t been an ardent european before world war two; he was a Christian Democrat who thought that the church should give up the legacy of the Holy Roman Empire, and of a ralliement to the Third Republic, and instead embrace the idea of Christian, pan-European republics held in community. He didn&#039;t think republics had to give up monarchs, either.

One thing I do think agrees with what I suppose was your American point, Bert, was that Schumann also got Dean Acheson to approve the idea, and to keep it silent from Ernie Bevin. The latter (a good hater) never forgave Acheson for it. Acheson&#039;s comment to Schumann--which may have been a diplomatic observation, as it were--was that Europe had been in decline since the reformation, in cultural terms, and needed to come together again. It was such a strange thing for an Anglophile American to say, but flattered a Lorrainer, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sections in Alan Fimister&#8217;s work on Schumann dealing with the lengths Schumann went to to get the coal and steel community established are almost comic. Schumann viewed the years since Napoleon in terms of France trying to get its hands on the Saarland and a frontier on the Rhine. He thought that any state that could would be the Great Power of Europe, and the world&#8211;a bit like Norman Stone&#8217;s quip that &#8216;Russia plus a Ukraine is an America&#8217;. So, he submitted a draft to the French PM when he was too tired to read it; got Adenauer to pre-emptively approve it; encouraged a pointless &#8216;Atlantic Council&#8217; discussion at cabinet to divert everyone, made the coal and steel community a technical proposal before lunch then announced it to masses of press just after dessert. Priceless.</p>
<p>Schumann hadn&#8217;t been an ardent european before world war two; he was a Christian Democrat who thought that the church should give up the legacy of the Holy Roman Empire, and of a ralliement to the Third Republic, and instead embrace the idea of Christian, pan-European republics held in community. He didn&#8217;t think republics had to give up monarchs, either.</p>
<p>One thing I do think agrees with what I suppose was your American point, Bert, was that Schumann also got Dean Acheson to approve the idea, and to keep it silent from Ernie Bevin. The latter (a good hater) never forgave Acheson for it. Acheson&#8217;s comment to Schumann&#8211;which may have been a diplomatic observation, as it were&#8211;was that Europe had been in decline since the reformation, in cultural terms, and needed to come together again. It was such a strange thing for an Anglophile American to say, but flattered a Lorrainer, I guess.</p>
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