Like nm, I’m pro EU and bloody exasperated by the way the fatheads in Brussels tend to handle things. Let’s put it this way, none of this crowd would impress at an interview for a marketing job in a PR/marketing company.

Sad really.

Further to your comments, I just had thought that why not have both? 10-20 page amendments to the relevant treaties and a complementary clear language ‘constitution’ that can be understood by a 12 year old???

This would clearly be great and indeed if this would happen we all should be thankfull for the Irish ‘no’. But I fear that the reality will look much different.

What is more realistic is that we get some extra 20-100 pages to the existing treaty which will satisfy all special interest groups which pushed for a no. And after they all have there pet issues satisfied the treaty will be even more incomprehensible.

The complete process which is used to draw up these types of treaties is flawed, especially because of this dynamic. This is why we can not produce a simple set of basic rules which govern the Union.

Congrats to the Irish. Voting for this treaty would be like going to the bank and signing for a loan written in such unclear terms that most signees could not possibly comprend, let alone to a level that they could hold the bank to account for breaches.

I’m somewhat bothered by Eurocrats (mostly the tie wearing, well fed neck bulging over collar type – and the equivalent ladies) demanding that the Irish should be ‘greatful’. It is the same argument as the ‘special relationship’ between the UK and US. They say that ‘friends’ should be amical when they disagree and their opinions being taken into account, but in reality, the big boys kick their little friends in the face and still expect them to be greatful. Are these truely ‘friends’?

Hopefully we will get several short (11 page max), clear and concise treaties that make the EU work much better for its citizens, be better held to account, and provide clear principles. But, that might cost too little for the eurocrats who seem unable to produce anything without bloat, the political version of ‘bloatware’ software that is shovelled onto our computers when we buy them from certain monopoly software manufacturers….

Viva the political linux, Europe by the people, for the people!

The government’s campaign for the treaty basically consisted of scaring people into voting yes, and i think the results of the referendum reflected this. Literally politicians spouting stuff about “a no vote will lead us into uncharted territory” and general scaremongering. The french minister’s comment about Ireland taking money off the EU was a bit over the top too. Was that some sort of veiled threat? What the hell? A lot of people voted no because of the way politicians (both irish and european) have started to view democracy and the people’s choice as an inconvenience to their intricate plans.

While i agreed with many things in the lisbon treaty, there was a lot i disagreed with, especially the way it was being implemented. The vote to ignore the result of the irish referendum has shocked me deeply. Ireland is a small country compared to most of the EU nations, and our voice is but a drop in the ocean in a majority voting system. The republic was founded within living memory, and it angers and saddens me to see the hard-won right of our people to choose how they are governed batted aside by beuraucrats and the political elite as an annoyance. Apologies for the patriotic waffle, but, you know…

It’s a sad day for the european union when it looks upon the democratic choice of one of its members as some sort of amusing side show.

We (the pro-integrationists among us) have for FAR too long allowed the expansion game to wreck our dreams. The UK has played a brilliant game, I must confess: eastward expansion has indeed made the EU unpopular in the western states.

Except, this would give us, amongst others, a European president, a common (and I mean common) foreign and defence policy and European taxes.

The reason why European treaties are so ridiculously complicated is that they have to contain compromises on every issue that could possibly be sensitive in any of the Member States – and they will remain this complicated as long as individual Member States keep the possibility to veto any new Treaty.