So, what’s this “bang” on the tube all about then? Anyone got any clearer idea than “either a bomb or a big crash”? And does this count as Sod’s Law, coming the day after the Olympics announcement?
Update: BBC now reports “reports of an explosion”, and says Transport for London are saying it’s thanks to a power failure. Hmmm… “walking wounded” caused by a power failure?
Fuck: Explosions at Aldgate, Edgware Road, King’s Cross, Old Street and Russell Square.
Unconfirmed rumours of 30 dead.
Piss – Russell Square may have been on a bus.
10:05am – Right – I’m calling this – terrorist attack. Sky News seems to be the only site working. I’m trawling for eyewitnesses.
“I saw lots of people running up a road and then saw the top of a bus destroyed,” one eyewitness told Sky News.
LBC News radio is still reporting “power surges”, but also advising “get away from the City, but don’t use public transport”.
10:15 – Eyewitness reports of “half the bus in the air” at Russell Square. BBC news site down. Radio still confused.
10:20 – FTSE dropping 3%, Pound dropping vs. the dollar. Reports of “at least one explosive device on the Underground”. If you have TV access, ITV have rolling coverage, apparently.
10:24 – Scotland Yard confirm bus explosion on Tavistock Place nr Russell Square, and “multiple” explosions across London. Bus system shut down as well now. This is major.
10:26 – Rumours of two more bus explosions, plus suspect packages in litter bins.
10:33 – my mate who works in the City didn’t go to work today, so no confirmation yet on rumours that they’re evacuating the Square Mile.
10:36 – Reuters is down. Just before it went was reporting large areas of London being cordoned off. Apparently Sky News’ helicopter is being prevented from filming over Russell Square. Helicopters everywhere though. More reports of “three busses”.
More advice to “get out of the area”, but no indication of where “the area” is – it seems to be the whole of Zone One (where I am).
10:40 – Sky has more on the Bus “ripped in two”, plus
Bradley Anderson told Sky News that he was involved in the Edgware Road incident on a Circle line train.He said: “We just left Paddington station. About 15 seconds later there was some kind of explosion and we collided with another train.
“We were heading into the station when there was some kind of explosion or something.
“Everything went black and we collided into some kind of oncoming train.
“There was debris all over the trains. They evacuated us.”
10:42 – Trains into London all halted. Marble Arch intersection (one of the busiest in central London for those who don’t know) has been closed. Roads being shut everywhere. Still no real news on casualties. No confirmation on anything other than the bus blast from official sources yet.
10:46 – bus was apparently a southbound 205, from Euston (big mainline/tube intersection) – “packed” with people evacuated from the tube. Reports of bodies at Edgeware Road.
10:47 – People being stretchered off at Aldgate.
10:49 – Home Secretary Charles “Safety Elephant” Clarke speaking at Downing Street. He has nothing of use to add. Surprise, surprise. Sounds worried, though.
10:51 – Upper Woburn Place bus bomb as well, apparently. This is all over. London Ambulance Service getting overloaded – all units concentrating on explosions. Web straining…
10:53 – “Scores reported dead”. Aldgate “pretty grim” according to a mate of a mate – loads of smoke. Here’s how it looks (via Sky): 
10:55 – Metropolitan Police say they’d tell us more if they knew what the hell was going on. Tony Blair to address the nation shortly. I’m rather glad I cycled to work today…
Unconfirmed reports of “a number” of dead at Russell Square.
10:59 – my overlords have just realised the office is half empty and are trying to find out where everyone is. On the ball here…
11:02 – BBC World Service is back up
British Telecom are apparently going to shut down all phone lines soon, so I may go offline without warning.
Controlled explosions apparently expected at Russell Square soon.
11:04 – reports of a bus explosion at South Kensington. Three minutes’ walk away. Nice.
11:08 – Blair expected within half an hour from Gleneagles. THAT’ll help. Cheers Tone.
Haven’t seen a bus go by in half an hour or more. Everyone walking and looking a tad worried.
11:10 – eyewitness confirmation from a friend – the entire top of the bus in Russell Square has been ripped off. Packed with people evacuated from Euston. Cunning, abject bastards.
11:12 – Hearing rumours of Brighton and Swindon stations being hit as well. they’ve gone to the provinces. Fuck.
11:15 – The Guardian also liveblogging
11:17 – 
11:18 – America’s waking up to the news
11:25 – The BBC have eyewitness stories: “The doors opened and as everyone was starting to get off, I saw a few lights starting to flicker overhead and then there was an explosion on the opposite side to me, just behind the train that had just pulled in.”
Now reports of 90 “casualties” from Aldgate East alone. Mostly stretchers, no idea how many dead.
11:32 – Photos. Reports of the army being deployed all over now. Quiet in Chelsea at the moment – bar the reports of a bomb on a bus up the road. Didn’t hear anything, but South Ken cordoned off apparently.
11:49 – just popped out for a fag. Busses are still running where I am after all. Rather them than me… Two bombs on my route home, so I guess I’m stuck here for a while. Internet still up. Comments section seems to be having updates as well if it cuts out.
11:51 – reports of “many” people with limbs missing arriving at hospitals.
11:53 – At King’s Cross, scene of one of the worst Underground disasters ever back in the late 1980s, people were using umbrellas to smash windows of the trains. 95 casualties and one confirmed fatality being reported from Aldgate East now.
11:58 – Email from an Israeli friend (Gaza strip) saying “Fuck”. Which says something… Blair expected in the next couple of minutes.
12:01 – 2 confirmed deaths now, via the Met Police. Certain to rise. Could be worse than Madrid.
12:02 – Blair – “It’s reasonably clear that there has been a series of terrorist attacks in London. It is my intention to leave the G8 to talk to police and emergency services personnel face to face… The G8 leaders will continue in my absence… Each of the countries around that table have some experience of terrorism… They all share our complete resolution for the defeat of terrorism. It is particularly barbaric that this has happened on the day people are meeting to try and help the problem of poverty in Africa… Just as it is reasonably clear that this is a terrorist attack… it is reasonably clear it has been timed to coincide with the opening of the G8… It is important, however, that the terrorists realise our determination to defend our values and our way of life is greater than their determination to cause the death and destruction of innocent people and impose their extremism on the world. It is our determination that they will never succeed in destroying what we have here in this country and in other civilised countries around the world.”
Looked and sounded shaken. Not surprising really.
12:06 – we may be getting moved away from the windows here shortly, as there’s a bus route outside, so I may be away from the computer. Will warn if so.
12:10 – via a Red Cross worker in the comments: “We have already deployed 10 ambulances in response to a request from the London Ambulance Service and another 14 are on standby across South Eastern Territory. Updates will be posted on RedRoom and the website.”
12:12 – bus explosion may have been a suicide bomber, according to reports.
12:15 – rumours of Al Quaida caim of responsibility. Well, they would, wouldn’t they? Twats.
12:20 – Tim Worstall has lots of links to more blog coverage if I get cut off.
12:25 – reports of trapped tube train at King’s Cross, major rescue operation underway. Phone networks pretty much all screwed. Official advice – stay where you are.
12:29 – 
12:31 – in the comments, a report of another explosion – this time in Leicester Square. About half a mile from Downing Street.
12:34 – from the comments: ” Someone here at work has just been phoned by a guy he knows in Canary Wharf (I know, it’s a bit removed – but I trust him)
“He says marines have shot a man there who they think to have been a suicide bomber”
Workmate’s husband reports Cambridge Circus – slap bang in the heart of the West End – has been completely shut down. That’s just north of Leicester Square, so explosion report there may have been a controlled one.
12:37 – Leicester Square rumour is nonsense.
12:42 – Soho seems to have been cordoned off to act as Army HQ. Have heard nothing from my mate who works for Sony there.
12:47 – South Kensington may just be a suspect package. Canary Wharf apparently calm – shooting rumour may be jus that – there’s a lot of it about.
12:52 – Military are apparently denying all rumours they’re involved. Purely a civilian thing – at the moment.
12:53 – Robin grant also liveblogging
12:54 – Charles Clarke statement in House of Commons: “Metropolitan Police are in operational command… The Underground is closed and will remain so for some time… There are no busses in central London… Airports are operating normally… The Prime Minister is returning to London.”
12:58 – When the site’s working, the BBC’s coverage is pretty good – fewer sensationalist attempts at scoops, more facts. For a kind of BBC liveblog, try here.
13:01 – God, us Brits are great. Hardly any panic – more just getting pissed off that it’s going to be a bugger getting home. I love this country sometimes.
13:04 From the comments, via Justin, the supposed Al Quaida statement:
Jamaat al-Tandheem Al-Sierri (secret organization group)
Organization of Qaeda’t al-Jihad in EuropeIn the name of God the most merciful…
Rejoice the nation of Islam, rejoice nation of Arabs, the time of revenge has come for the crusaders’ Zionist British government.
As retaliation for the massacres which the British commit in Iraq and Afghanistan, the mujahideen have successfully done it this time in London.
And this is Britain now burning from fear and panic from the north to the south, from the east to the west.
We have warned the brutish governments and British nation many times.
And here we are, we have done what we have promised. We have done a military operation after heavy work and planning, which the mujahideen have done, and it has taken a long time to ensure the success of this operation.
And we still warn the government of Denmark and Italy, all the crusader governments, that they will have the same punishment if they do not pull their forces out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
So beware.
Thursday 7/7/2005
Jamaat al-Tandheem Al-Sierri (secret organization group)
Organization of al Qaeda’t al-Jihad in Europe.
13:12 – From Tim Worstall’s comments section, “Bart from Kansas” earns my “insensitive cunt of the day” award. From the comments here, “Roger” earns the “stupid fucking reaction of the day” award. Yeah – let’s burn some mosques, Roger. Fucking GENIUS. Moron.
13:17 – from the comments, reports that Soho is NOT closed off. All normal.
13:18 – FTSE down 115. Traders being asked to calm the fuck down. Everyone else relaxed.
13:27 – Wikipedia’s got loads. And some good analysis via email from Daniel Johnson:
A brief summation of where we seem to stand based on my attempt at rational thought:First of all; it seems the new channels, in particular the BBC are reluctant to get involved here.. the BBC didn’t even broadcast Tony Blair’s 1pm statement with the G8 leaders. Blair, Hoon, Davis, the police etc seem to be focusing their energy on the PR front to comforting British residents. Our TV screens are filled with calm police officers offering directions and people calmly going about their business. We’re not being told anything.
The mujahideen have accepted responsibility – a claim which I don’t think holds weight at the moment.. it was inevitable that some small Far Eastern group would.. I’d wait for police reports and word from the government on this.
It also appears that nothing has actually happened since 11am. There are rumours of packages in Tottenham Court Road, the Royal Bank of Scotland hiding their staff in a basement, Soho being used as an Army base, explosions on the M25 (a weird one). Not wishing to tempt fate, but it seems quite possible that all of these could be rumours, much like the planes that were headed into Canary Wharf and Westminster on 9/11 – Somewhere between panick and misplaced excitement comes a million different rumours.
However there does seem to be a bit of a paradoxical thing happening. The broadcasters are holding back – reluctant to report news and instead focusing on reporting on the good work of the emergency services (from eye witness accounts and personally talking to people on the phone, the services are doing a great job and we should be incredibly proud). So they’re very calm- but the public is spinning the rumour mill.. before long I’m sure we’ll get IRA rumours, G8 rebels, etc- we should take comfort in the fact that the leaders of the free world are all together in a room, our emergency services are doing an amazing job – and the majority of scare-mongering rumours appear to be just that.
I’m off for some lunch (and a soothing pint) – back shortly.
14:05 – I tell you what, if this is an “Islamic” terrorist attack, they’re doing a piss-poor job. The pubs are all packed out, people sipping their pints happily, all a tad pissed off, but basically fine with it. Nice one, Al Quaeda – you profess to be from a teetotal religion, and you’ve given the pub trade a massive mid-week boost. Result.
14:12 – update on the “insensitive cunt of the day” award – a new winner – Mike from New York, in the comments to this post. What a twat. I’d kiindly suggest, Mike old bean, that you go fuck yourself.
14:17 – and, for the record, the anonymous comments purporting to be from celebrating Muslims appear to be coming from the same computer as that from which Mike was posting. Nice one, Mike, you tit.
14:21 – bomb in Tavistock Square bus in the upper back of the thing. Met Police refuse to confirm it was a suicide attack. Fucked-up pictures fo the damage here and here. Christ…
14:28 – I’ve still only heard 45 dead tops (via the untrustworthy/sensationalist Sky – BBC’s last report I heard was 24). Lots more injured, but reports from hospitals suggest that despite earlier reports most are walking wounded. Could be a surprisingly low body count.
14:40 – more, from the comments and Guardian Newsblog – “Ambulance sources suggest 23 people have been killed at King’s Cross, nine at Edgware road, seven at Aldgate, two at Russell Square. There are hundreds – possibly more than a thousand – injured.”
14:42 – Slideshow of images. Worrying viewing – especially if you know and love this city well. But, at least in terms of death toll, so far we seem to have got off lightly.
14:53 – It all seems to have calmed down. For more blog coverage, check out the Kinja digest someone’s set up.
14:58 – Victoria, Paddington and Euston stations have re-opened. Looks like King’s Cross will be shut for a while.
15:05 – Now that it’s calm, people are starting to head home… Not entirely sure what route I can take considering I go via South Kensington and Edgeware Road, but still – the joys of a bike, eh? Sidestreets and ignoring one-way systems ahoy!
15:12 – the people who were trapped underground at King’s Cross are apparently just getting out now. No reports on any casualties. But that’s six hours stuck down there. Bloody hell.
15:13 – King’s Cross apparently to reopen for overland suburban services soon.
15:33 – Bus services beginning to return to central London, bar the King’s Cross, Russell Square and Aldgate areas. Will be slow and crappy (no change there then…), with extra police etc. to help with directions and travel advice.
15:35 – Met Police press conference: casualty bureau has a technical fault, so no one has any ideas on numbers.
“At the moment we don’t know if this was suicide bombers or just packages left… There is no indication that these were anything other than conventional explosives, but we have no indication of the size or type of device… [CCTV] has been one of our first priorities, as has collecting forensic evidence”
No people are left trapped underground.
“Almost all the system was cleared within an hour… We don’t have any information [about bus bomb fatalities]… The security level in London has been high over recent months. We have had all the security services actively engaged in antiterrorism activities during this period… We are content that the security level was appropriate even not withstanding the fact that G8 was happening in Scotland.”
15:40 – ctd: “We have 11,000 Metropolitan Police Officers on duty in Scotland and 31,000 in London. We have more than enough to cope… we won’t be bringing any back [from g8]… London has always been a terrorist target, and we are clearly shocked by what has happened today, but we are not surprised… we have spent years rehearsing and planning for this scenario… that plan has worked exactly as it should have done”
15:42 – “we don’t have any intelligence about any other devices… but we are making sure that the public transport system is thoroughly searched before opening for business”
15:45 – ctd: “As far as I am concerned, ‘Islamic’ and ‘terrorism’ do not go together… we have received no claims as to who is responsible, so it is too early to speculate.”
“We have no reports of a police sniper shooting anybody today… We understand that a group claiming to be linked to Al Quaida have claimed responsibility on the internet, which we will be investigating, but we have no evidence yet that that is the case.”
Reports of Heathrow Terminal 3 being evacuated (not via the news conference though).
15:49 – ctd: “We had no warning from any organisation”
“During rush hour we would be running 500 trains… around 600-900 people on them”
“We move around 3 million people a day”
15:51 – ctd: “People didn’t panic… people just got on with it… I was impressed with just how calm people were in very, very traumatic circumstances”
We Brits rule.
16:01 – Casualty bureau is up and running – number is 0870 156 6344 – but try family and friends first to prevent overload.
16:05 – official figure is at least 33 dead.
16:15 – I’m going to follow police advice and head home. Should be back online in c.30-45 minutes, depending on road closures. I’ll take the camera, but am going to try and avoid the affected areas as much as possible…
17:00 – back home. Lots of police sirens, little else. As normal. Brits rule.
An observation:
Liverpool St/Aldgate East/Moorgate was all the same incident.
- this is near Brick Lane, with a sizable Bangladeshi/Muslim community.
Edgeware Road
- the heart of a major Arab/Muslim community
King’s Cross/Russell Square and Woburn Place
- by the King’s Cross Estate, with a sizable Bangladeshi/Muslim community, plus the School of Oriental and African Studies, one of the world’s leading universities for the study of Islam (amongst others)
Was this intended to stir up anti-Muslim tension as much as anything? Otherwise the locations are rather bizarre – King’s Cross and Liverpool Street, as major rail termini, make sense if you intend to cause maximum damage/casualties. Edgeware Road is near Paddington, another major station, so that could make sense too. But nothing at Charing Cross, Victoria, Waterloo etc. Nothing at Heathrow or Gatwick either. Odd. Why go for half measures?
Either way, from the casualties so far we’ve got off lightly. Seems like fluke as much as anything.
17:21 – That bus really doesn’t look good. Official casualties from all blasts is still only 33 though:
Shadow Home Secretary (and Tory leadership frontrunner) David Davis on BBC News points out that Identity Cards “don’t prevent this sort of thing”. Considering there was no warning, the police kept warning levels the same as they have been for a month, and no one yet know who was responsible (despite claims), he’s got a very good point.
17:30 – Blair statement – “I’ve just attended a meeting of the government’s emergency committee… there will be announcements as soon as possible… there will of course now be the most intense police and emergency service action to make sure we bring those responsible to justice. I would also like to pay tribute to the stoicism and resilience of the people of London, who have responded in a way that is typical of them… {The terrorists] are trying to use the slaughter of innocent people to cow us, to stop us from doing what we want to do… the should not and will not succeed… When they try to intimidate us they will not intimidate us. When they try to change our way of life it will not be changed. WHen they try to divide us they will not succeed and our resolve will hold firm… Our values will long outlast theirs. The purpose of terrorism is to terrorise people. And we will not be terrorised… THis is a very sad day for the British people, but we will hold true to the British way of life.”
17:43 – a message to our sensible American friends (and others from around the world), many of whom are posting in the comments:
Cheers for the messages of support. London’s grateful. And we’re going to keep our heads. Stiff upper lip and all that – wouldn’t do to get all emotional. Hardly British – and if we stop being British about it, the bastards have won. So we’ll have a few beers, make as many sick jokes about it in pubs up and down the land as we can, and get on with our lives as normal. Other than causing the grief of too many innocent people, these cunts will have achieved precisely fuck all. We shall not be moved.
17:59 – I’d missed this – Eyewitness blogger account of the Edgeware blast.
18:10 – Police report – 37 confirmed dead, including two from the bus. 700 casualties total, “a number” in a severe condition, but “many” got to hospitals by themselves – so total is likely to rise, but no one knows by how much.
18:35 – Just heard that my Sharpener blog buddy Andrew was on the train behind the one hit at Liverpool Street, but is fine – and on his usual form:
“to the terrorist cunts who tried to kill me today:“Fuck you. You missed me. Better luck next time.”
18:57 – Nice, BBC News special report cuts away to a weather report. Britain, as I believe I may have said a few times today, rules.
19:07 – discussions are underway for a “Fuck you, terrorist dicks” protest/show of solidarity, Madrid style, this weekend. I’ll let you know more when we’ve finalised something.
Trains are running out of London from King’s Cross and St Pancras. 4 trains an hour from Euston. Near normal service at Liverpool Street. Limited services at Paddington. 2 per hour London Bridge to Brighton. Near normal services at Charing Cross, Blackfriars, Marylebone, Victoria, Fenchurch Street (though the latter’s worth avoiding).
Busses up and running, but major delays – many roads still closed. Gray’s Inn, Caledonian, East Smithfield, Commercial Road, all approaches to Aldgate, M25 and M4 out of London are packed.
You can get home, if you’ve been waiting, but it may take a while.
19:16 – Just had an email request for details of how to give charity donations to help the victims. Nothing that I’ve heard of so far. I’d say give it to Oxfam or Make Poverty History – Londoners are fairly well-off. Bunk it to people who matter – the African buggers who were meant to be getting helped out at G8 today. The terrorist bastards have screwed them over more than they have us.
20:14 – Just spoke to my grandmother, a nurse in London throughout the Blitz. Though naturally worried about her grandson being in one of the prime targets, she’s living proof that London has coped with worse than this. We refuse to give in to this sort of thing.
20:51 – Only just found this, but spot on.
21:46 – reports of seven people in intensive care in one London hospital – could be unconscious for days or weeks. Few reports of life-threatening injuries, many reports of lost limbs and emergency amputations.
22:00 – Third Avenue has a good world press roundup, while Yes But No But Yes rounds up blog reactions.
22:31 – The BBC, after a few splutters when the news site went down this morning, is doing brilliantly. Meanwhile, The Guardian has a handy reminder of why we’re used to this shit. And here, for those who care, is an old post explaining why I’m used to this shit.
22:41 – The BBC’s London radio station will be broadcasting throughout the night. Should have travel info for those of us trying to get to work tomorrow. The Beeb’s London site also has more pictures.
23:20 – Nearly time for bed. All I ask is that we don’t forget the others who have died today, from whom those bastard terrorists managed to distract our attention.
– don’t let a bunch of psychos distract us from what really matters.
Thursday morning update from the Met Police (update: actually, it’s Friday, isn’t it? Lost track there somewhere…): 700 casualties, of which 350 were minor. 350 were taken to hospital, of which 100 were kept overnight, of which 22 are in a critical condition.
There are over 50 dead that they know of. There will be more, but thanks to the nature of the blasts on the bus and between Russell Square and King’s Cross, it’s difficult to count the bodies.
Final update: Sign up to the pledge to join a fuck you, terrorist dicks protest.
July 8, 2005 at 11:45 am
RC in California – I bow to your evidently superior knowledge.
Tit.
July 8, 2005 at 11:58 am
Oh – last anonymous – what "deafening silence" from London's Muslim community? There were condemnations of the attacks from the Muslim Council and every mosque in the country almost as soon as it became aware what was going on.
And a note to our American chums – we've just had a particularly unpleasant law put forward in this country making incitement to religious hatred illegal. I'd therefore be grateful if you could keep your theories about the nature of Islam to yourselves, if only to prevent me from getting arrested for letting them be published on my blog. Ta.
July 8, 2005 at 2:19 pm
Nosemonkey,
great blog.
To everyone currently making a large number of suppositions and mouthing off accordingly – fuck right off. This was horrible but so are your proto-fascist comments. You are reacting to speculation, a course of action as irrational as the mindset required to carry out this type of horror. I live and work in the affected area of zone 1; but I won't let this change my life because I won't be cowed. Tonight will be an echo of last night – back down the pub, wine glass hoisted and fag firmly grasped between fingers!
Last point to the people currently stuck on quoting the texts of various religions – look at when those were written and the social codes applicable at the time. Now, can we all please begin to act like grown ups?
July 8, 2005 at 2:19 pm
"Left or Right, Hawkish or Pacifist: we may or may not agree entirely on how to deal with terrorism, but we need to agree on one thing: who the REAL enemy is: Al Quaeda."
You'd think that'd be obvious. Apparently not.
July 8, 2005 at 2:23 pm
Ah yes, the Muslim Council of Britain – how could one forget the moment when its secretary-general Iqbal Sacranie refused to attend the commemoration of the liberation of Auschwitz unless the organisers kowtowed to his demands that they include the 'holocaust' of the Palestinian intifada? Or his repeated attempts to suggest that even linking the words 'Islamic' and 'terrorism' is 'Islamophopic' and therefore open to prosecution by the law. As for the MCB's carefully worded denunciations of yesterdays atrocity – the MCB may be racists, Jew-haters and supporters of terrorism – but they're not stupid.
And before the usual liberals go off on one let me say that I know perfectly well that most Muslims are law abiding, decent people. Nontheless, as last years Home Office report noted '…there may be between 10,000 and 15,000 British Muslims who �actively support� Al-Qaeda or related terrorist groups.'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-112…
10 – 15, 000 individuals in our own country that support a murdeous war of religious hatred against our own people, our own values. That is a helluva worry and if the 'good' Muslim community wanted to do something positive they could start by demanding the wholesale resignation of Iqbal Sacranie and his creepy outfit and its replacement by Muslims who share a recognisable sense of morality.
RC in California and Anon – very good points. Keep making 'em. Oh, and Nosemonkey? Fuck you.
July 8, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Treb – get to fuck and stop trying to score political points over the bodies of the innocent dead, there's a good lad. You're almost as bad as the fucking terrorists.
July 8, 2005 at 3:11 pm
What percentage of the British population is now blaming Blair for this current attack instead of blaming the enemy? Aside from George Galloway, how many infidel Brits are running to the mosques begging for forgiveness for not believing that Islam will one day rule the world and all infidels will be exterminated?
Ironic that up until 6 million Jews were exterminated few believed the Germans were capable of such attrocious barbarism. Will it take the elimination of indigenious Europeans to recognize such barbarism is aimed directly at them.
A quarter of a century of Islamic Jihad War waged against the West yet people act as if this war is something new and is caused by poverty imposed, not by Islam's own totalitarian rule, but by poverty imposed upon by Democratic societies.
Unbelievable.
By the way, Muslim is not a race it is a religion so calling someone a racist for questioning Islam's motives is useless ignorance. Of course, no one is allowed to critize radical Islam, not even Muslims themselves, for if you do you will be murdered openly in the streets all in the name of Allah.
July 8, 2005 at 3:13 pm
treb,
using your logic means that because most prisoners in the UK prison system are white (and therefore most likely from a judeo-christian background) all judeo-christian residents of the UK should be targeted as an anti-crime measure.
oh and imams don't hold a position they can 'resign' from, you fool.
July 8, 2005 at 4:58 pm
there may be between 10,000 and 15,000 British Muslims who �actively support� Al-Qaeda or related terrorist groups.'
*scratches head* And?
There is always a bunch of supporters for an extremist or terrorist group, regardless of religion, race, nationality and la la la. In other words, there are supporters for the IRA; supporters for the National Front; supporters for the Nation of Islam; supporters for Hollyoaks … ah, sod this.
In case anyone didn't already say it, cheers to Americans, Spaniards and everyone else around the world for your well wishes. If only there was a global pub! :D
July 8, 2005 at 5:17 pm
There is nothing wrong with loving your country, but defending it to the point of ignorance about your global role in the world is kind of scary.
Amber, I think that the point is that the US is so powerful that its "global role" is precisely what the US wants it to be.
Let's not beat about the bush�or Bush�here. The Koran says some very unpleasant things about unbelievers. So does the Bible. But then the Bible had a section about "love thy neighbour" added: it had a non-violent revision, if you like.
The Koran has had no such non-violent revision. Some interpretations of this tract allow for the killing of oneself and others and, in some circumstances, encourages the practice: a good example being this silly girl, who was caught in an attempt to blow herself up in an Israeli hospital where she was receiving (free) treatment. She said that her "dream was to be a martyr". As someone pointed out, this is aspiration not desperation.
The fact is that, if we are to engage with these people, even if it is the same way in which we engaged with the IRA, we have to understand their motivations.
We should not fly off the handle (which I'm afraid I was guilty of at some points yesterday), but we must accept that people do want to kill us. If we are to stop them, then we must understand why.
There has been a certain amount of breast-beating, especially from Gorgeous George and the Socialist Worker, about it being our�or, rather, our government's�fault because of Britain's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. This may be an issue, but we must also remember why we went into those countries in the first place.
We have to face the fact that some fundamentalist Muslims do wish to kill us because we are not fundamentalist Muslims. These people will happily kill other Muslims as well (they are doing it every day in Iraq). We either need to find a compromise (which I, personally, do not believe exists), or we have to track them down and wipe them out. These are not the kind of people to whom we can say "live and let live", simply because the fact that we do live is�at least in part�their motivation.
The fact that they are willing to use our "decadent" Western technology to kill us simply makes their hypocrisy additionally irritating.
Iraq was (probably) a mistake. Perhaps we should withdraw from Iraq, and leave her people to the tender mercies of the fanatics bombing them and us. It's not the path that I would choose though. If you want to know why not, simply look at Iran; then go and put "free iran" into Google and read about what being a hardline Muslim state means for those living under its rule.
Anyway, I digress: you can read more about all sorts at my blog. I would like to thank Nosemonkey for keeping me informed yesterday, and say a "well done" to the people of London; you showed true British stoicism. Now, we have to attempt to make sure that this does not happen again.
July 8, 2005 at 5:31 pm
Can anyone figure out how London copes so much better with fanatical terrorists armed with high explosives than it does with a little snow?
July 8, 2005 at 5:58 pm
>> Treb – get to fuck and stop trying to score political points over the bodies of the innocent dead, there's a good lad. You're almost as bad as the fucking terrorists.
For what? For suggesting that
15, 000 Muslims who 'actively support' murderous religious fanatics pose a threat to our way of life? And let's bear in mind that as an official home office figure that 15, 000 estimate will, of course, err or the conservative side. After yesterday's atrocity one rather suspects that the dead – could they speak – might wish rather more people woke up to that disturbing fact and did something about it instead of accusing anyone who dares mention it as a political point scorer. But, hey, if I'm as bad as a terrorist for mentioning that then what does that make you, Nosemonkey? Why, I guess it makes you a gutless little coward doesn't it? One of those wankers running terrified of linking the words 'terrorist' and 'Islamic', even when dozens of bodies lie on the streeets. See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil, eh, Nosemonkey? Sonny, when you decide to pull your head out of your arse, you let us know.
>>there may be between 10,000 and 15,000 British Muslims who �actively support� Al-Qaeda or related terrorist groups.'
>>*scratches head* And?
And yesterday at least 50 innocent people were murdered by individuals who likely drew support, shelter and encouragment from some of those 15, 000 British Muslims. Think about that – you fucking moron.
July 8, 2005 at 6:10 pm
*sigh*
Yes, Treb. Well done.
July 8, 2005 at 6:25 pm
Hey, Nosemonkey, Treb does have a point. S/he might be getting a little beligerant about it (it's not a new idea) and this may possibly be not the best time to raise it, but nevertheless, Treb has a point.
It is a point that is raised in the Guardian article that you linked to here.
"London was not only a potent symbol with the national media, on hand to record any devastation, but it housed a large Irish community in which IRA active service units were able to move easily… The parallels with groups like al-Qaida, which can move within London's large Muslim communities, are obvious…"
July 8, 2005 at 6:31 pm
Four young British Muslims in their twenties – a social worker, an IT specialist, a security guard and a financial adviser – occupy a table at a fast-food chicken restaurant in Luton. Perched on their plastic chairs, wolfing down their dinner, they seem just ordinary young men. Yet out of their mouths pour heated words of revolution.
"As far as I'm concerned, when they bomb London, the bigger the better," says Abdul Haq, the social worker. "I know it's going to happen because Sheikh bin Laden said so. Like Bali, like Turkey, like Madrid – I pray for it, I look forward to the day."
"Pass the brown sauce, brother," says Abu Malaahim, the IT specialist, devouring his chicken and chips.
"I agree with you, brother," says Abu Yusuf, the earnest-looking financial adviser sitting opposite. "I would like to see the Mujahideen coming into London and killing thousands, whether with nuclear weapons or germ warfare. And if they need a safehouse, they can stay in mine – and if they need some fertiliser [for a bomb], I'll tell them where to get it."
His friend, Abu Musa, the security guard, smiles radiantly. "It will be a day of joy for me," he adds, speaking with a slight lisp
This Is London
July 8, 2005 at 6:38 pm
Yes RC I think muslims are 'nice,' you idiot.
I happen to know several Muslims: a social worker, an IT specialist, a security guard and a financial adviser, and they are all just ordinary British citizens, like you and me.
July 8, 2005 at 6:46 pm
Devil's Kitchen – Treb makes his point exceptionally badly. You make it slightly better. Yes, terrorists are able to hide amongst Muslim populations. Yes, doubtless some Muslims in this country sympathise with/support the bastards – law of averages. But it is a tiny percentage of the Muslim population as a whole – even if those figures Treb gives are accurate (and how would the Home Office know, exactly? Do a survey? "Hello, I'm from the government – do you want to destroy us and our way of life? Yes or no?")
Anonymous person quoting made-up and already debunked rumous from This Is London – that website is the online home of the Evening Standard and Daily Mail, both owned by Associated Newspapers. The Daily Mail is famous for, in the 1930s, running a headline stating "Hurrah for the Blackshirts!" – the Blackshirts being the British Union of Fascists. Associated Newspapers' erstwhile head was a friend of Hitler. The papers that group publishes have continued to be fearmongering racist hate-rags ever since. It's bollocks.
July 8, 2005 at 6:49 pm
There is nothing wrong with loving your country, but defending it to the point of ignorance about your global role in the world is kind of scary.
Yes, those damned ignorant Yanks.
And arrogant too! What with their stupid Imperialist ambitions, having colonized half the planet, and drawing borders willy-nilly in the Middle East last century, they are the cause of all the problems we are facing now!
July 8, 2005 at 6:56 pm
Our most heartfelt condolences, sympathies, and prayers for you. My heart breaks for you. This was a senseless tragedy. I apologize for some of my countrymen's comments. Terrorist hate is fueled by politics and religion, why do some of us let it create hate in us, Mike?
Badmonkey in LA, USA
July 8, 2005 at 6:59 pm
http://www.michaelyon.blogspot.com/
" Attacking our Family
The American soldiers here in Iraq who have seen the news about the attack on London, are angry. When the United Kingdom is attacked, our family is attacked. We are seeing news here in Iraq that civilians and children were killed in London. This is very distressing, as when we see the savages killing children here in Iraq.
It is also clear from the messages I am getting from London, that the people in the U.K. are reacting with great strength and calm. They always have been resolute people, and no doubt our family in the U.K. will react in a way unexpected by the barbarians who have attacked us yet again.
Sincerely,
Michael
Balad, Iraq"
July 8, 2005 at 7:03 pm
Don't read that "This Is London" trash. Islam is a religion of peace and no Muslim would want to bomb London.
Read the BBC instead:
In the past our politicians offered us dreams of a better world. Now they promise to protect us from nightmares.
The most frightening of these is the threat of an international terror network. But just as the dreams were not true, neither are these nightmares.
In a new series, the Power of Nightmares explores how the idea that we are threatened by a hidden and organised terrorist network is an illusion.
It is a myth that has spread unquestioned through politics, the security services and the international media.
At the heart of the story are two groups: the American neo-conservatives and the radical Islamists.
The Power of Nightmares: Baby It's Cold Outside
You see, the BBC knows the truth: there is no terrorism – it is all an illusion. Those 50 people that allegedly "died" yesterday in a so-called "terror-attack?" They are really being held in a secret neo-con detention center under the American embassy.
July 8, 2005 at 7:19 pm
Devil's Kitchen – Treb makes his point exceptionally badly. You make it slightly better.
Why, thank you; I'll take that as a compliment [no sarcasm intended]. Just smugness.
Yes, doubtless some Muslims in this country sympathise with/support the bastards – law of averages. But it is a tiny percentage of the Muslim population as a whole – even if those figures Treb gives are accurate
Most people, including myself, are aware of that. However, all I said was that he had a point. I am not suggesting that we drive all Muslims into the sea; I merely wanted to flag up a relevant idea that might possibly have become lost amongst the all the bellicose language (particularly the "you're almost as bad as the terrorists" line. I think that may have been overstepping the mark somewhat: there is a considerable difference between lacking courtesy and moderation, and blowing up innocent people).
And for what it's worth, I rather think that Treb's implication that those stats are rather low is incorrect; I imagine that they are rather higher than the truth (or, as you pointed out, whatever truth the Home Office may have collated. Probably arrived at through the judicious use of a Bingo Card and a pin). But it is a good lever for our good ol' Safety Elephant to justify his rotten ID cards with…
July 8, 2005 at 11:39 pm
London mosque link to Beslan
A member of the group responsible for the Beslan school massacre last month is a British citizen who attended the infamous Finsbury Park mosque in north London, The Observer can reveal.
Two other members of the group, loyal to Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev, are also believed to have been active in the UK until less than three years ago. They are suspected of taking part in the raid on the school in which 300 people, half of them children, died.
July 8, 2005 at 11:47 pm
Whoop de doo. And Lenin studied in the British Library.
Your point is?
July 9, 2005 at 12:48 am
The Religion of Peace at work since September 11, 2001.
The peace-loving Muslims in the world aren't in the positions of leadership in the Islamic religion. Either their number is too small or they are pushed out to the margins of the faith. Those who blindly and tacitly approve of the Islamic faith as it is professed and expressed in the world now do so to their own peril.
Now, you may feel safe in defending Islam. A day will come that will see you under Islamic rule. "But we defended you during the terrorist actions of the 'minority' so many years ago," you will insist. They will neither reply nor acknowledge your loyalty to them. They will bend you over the butchers block and remove your head without the slightest hesitation or trace of regret.
July 9, 2005 at 1:37 am
Not all Muslims are terrorists or supporters of terrorism. But we also shouldn't bury our heads in the sand and pretend that the problem of Islamic terrorism doesn't exist. One would think the tragic events in London yesterday would make that point rather painfully obvious.
Perhaps it is more than just a bit ridiculous to allow radical immams to continue to preach hatred of "infidels" and promote jihad in London mosques?
It's not as if we don't know who the extremists are, or that they are hiding their support for terrorism. They tell you straight out:
Omar Brookes, leader of Al-Muhajiroun in London, pushes aside a policeman as he delivers his speech…
Muslims protest before holding Friday prayers infront of the US Embassy on May 20, 2005 in London.
Islamic demonstrators wear suicide bomber costumes April 13, 2002 in Hyde Park in London.
July 9, 2005 at 5:14 am
Well, Finsbury Park mosque is in the news again today; looks like the Palestinian leader of Al-Qaeda in Europe, the group that may have been responsible for yesterday's terror attacks in London, used the mosque to established contacts with other terrorists. But I'm sure since Lenin studied in the British Library, it probably isn't relevant or anything we should be concerned about.
"Move along people, nothing to see here…"
Islamic leader warned of London attack 15 months ago
LONDON (AFP) – An Islamic leader warned in a Portuguese newspaper interview 15 months ago that a London-based group, Al-Qaeda Europe, was on the verge of a major attack.
"Here in London there is a very well-organized group, which calls itself Al-Qaeda-Europe," Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed, the Syrian head of the London-based group Al-Muhajiroun, told the Portuguese daily Publico in an interview published April 18 last year.
"I know they are on the verge of launching a big operation."
Bakri, 46, is suspected of having links with Abu Qatada, the alleged Al-Qaeda leader in Europe.
Speaking a month after the March 11, 2004 Madrid train bombings, Bakri said it was "inevitable" that London would be hit by a large attack "because they are being prepared by various groups."
…Abu Qatada, the alleged Al-Qaeda leader in Europe, is a Palestinian whose real name is Omar Othman.
Sentenced in his absence to life in prison in Jordan for his alleged role in a series of attacks, Qatada is under house arrest after spending two and a half years in the Belmarsh high security prison in London.
The British government said last year that he was a radical preacher and the most important "inspiration" for terrorists in the country, including the men of Mohammed Atta, the leader of the September 11, 2001 attacks.
In his prayers, notably at Finsbury Park mosque, he established links with Richard Reid, the so-called shoe bomber, and Zacharias Moussaoui, who was linked to the 9/11 plot and is being held in the United States awaiting trial.
July 9, 2005 at 9:27 am
>>Not all Muslims are terrorists
Absolutely, however almost all terrorists are Muslims.
July 9, 2005 at 1:06 pm
I hear Tony Blair wants UK Muslim community leaders to condemn all forms of terrorism� His friend Tom Friedman just wrote an article in the New York Times suggesting �solutions to this Muslim problem� such as having Arab teenagers wear T-shirts with anti-terrorist statements on them!
�Terrorism� is certainly a despicable activity�but masochistic self-incrimination isn�t much higher on the moral scale.
After 1944, a certain lobby literally harassed the Vatican and the French government (using guilt by association and other Pharisaic scare tactics) for nearly four decades until they finally got what they wanted: sheepish �repentance� for crimes neither the Catholic Church nor the French government ever committed.
Today, the likes of B-LIAR, Friedman, Wolfowitz, Perl, Cheneybusharielsharon & Co. want Arabs and Moslems to �atone� for sins committed by others! That�s�how shall I say? � err�kind of grotesque to use a polite word!
We should all condemn the tragic events that took place in London yesterday, but Arabs and Moslems shouldn�t forget to put things into perspective: in the past 14 years, British and American pilots flew thousands of illegal �sorties� over Mosul, Baghdad, and Tickrit, bombarding methodically Iraq�s civilian and military infrastructure: hundreds of schools, hospitals, factories were burned.
More than 90% of the country�s water treatment plants and sewage trunk lines were destroyed by Tony Blair and his �brave� Tornado top guns: according to official UN figures, more than 500,000 Iraqi children died of malaria and dysentery as a direct consequence of US and British air strikes cum illegal invasion and occupation of a country that posed no threat to the West (whether �imminent� or otherwise): that�s 10,000 times more than the number of commuters who died in London yesterday�yet these innocent Arab boys and girls got 10,000 times less media coverage in the Times, the Telegraph, the BBC, and other �civilized� news outlets.
You see Tony I�d rather wait for the Brits to do a little introspective atonement first. Then, I would expect them to write blood-lettered excuses on their chest: all of the UK�s T-shirt factories will have to work at full capacity for years before Maryam and other murdered Iraqi baby girls can finally rest in peace.
July 9, 2005 at 5:13 pm
Islamist Alert: Abdel-Khaleq Qahtan a.k.a. AK Blogger (ak47@umma.org), post above.
Stone any women to death lately, Abdel?
July 9, 2005 at 6:59 pm
Just heard that the underground blasts were all together at the same time the bus blast was almost an hour later. Is this an indication that the the bombers screwed up. Did the team fly in from the continent and forget to reset their clocks? Was the guy on the bus paniking because he got the time right/wrong and knew he was about to be blown to kingdom come.
No matter what – any of these ba*****s that they catch should be smeared in bacon fat, hung up by the testicles and delivered to the general population of Wormwood Scrubs for a little bit of cultural re-education. (So much for the promise of heavenly virgins to tend to their needs).
Don't get me wrong – I'm not anti Muslim – I spent 5 years working in Bradford and made a lot of friends in the Muslim community. These characters are not Muslims they are thugs and gangsters who are determined that anarchy should rule. The best way to treat them and to show their erstwhile friends that it is not worth it is to send them to hell in the way that they fear most.
July 9, 2005 at 8:18 pm
It's my bet that the bomber didn't intend his device to explode on the bus. Three on the Tube … one on a bus, doesn't fit the pattern. All four were intended to go off underground. But because the bus was diverted — something that no-one, certainly not the bombers, could have envisaged — that screwed up the bomber on the bus who was heading to a Tube station. It's more than likely that he died aboard the bus.
Everything was aimed for the Underground. Flight from the scene was to be by bus. But that went awry with the bus explosion, bringing both transit systems to a virtual halt. Which is why it wasn't intended for the bomb to explode on the bus.
July 9, 2005 at 8:26 pm
Abdel, get in touch with Polly Toynbee – she'd like to sleep with you!
Incidentally, the formidable Chris Hitchens has a few words on the 'illegitimate war in Iraq'schtick perpetuated by Abdel and his fellow travellers:
http://www.radioblogger.com/#000816
July 9, 2005 at 10:49 pm
Your post was quoted in my Weekly BlogScan, this week titled "Live from the London Blasts." To read your citation and join in the commentary, please join the two lines below to create the full URL.
http://blogcritics.org/
archives/2005/07/09/144353.php
July 10, 2005 at 5:35 am
Plenty of props from my fellow Canadians here already, but I'll add one more.
From Canada's capital to England's: good show. You guys are doing us all proud. Demonstrating the PROPER way to react to a tragedy (terrorist-related or not) – calm, rational thought, wry humour, restraint, and going about your normal routines. Not overreacting, screaming for vengeance, calling for blood, spewing bigoted intolerance. As the old song goes, "There'll Always be an England, and England Shall Be Free". I think good old Sir Winston woulda been proud…
And to Mike from NYC: SHUT THE HELL UP, YOU STUPID F**KING WANKER!!! You don't know your arse from your elbow, pal. You're a bloody disgrace to the United States of America, a country I generally respect and admire. Your appalling ignorance is part of the problem – it serves only to promote terrorism, not impede it. You probably still blame us here in the Great White North for "letting all the terrorists across the border", despite the proven fact that ALL the 9/11 hijackers came in through the States and lived & worked there for months. Months! So, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones…
Anyway, rock on London! Stay strong and keep downing those pints! Canada sends her love as always!
Blake
Ottawa, Ontario
July 10, 2005 at 7:15 am
Rumor has it Osama bin Laden is a Jew! and whole holy war thing is nothing but a plot to render Muslims chattel slavery …
July 10, 2005 at 8:41 pm
"Kill them, torture them — God will support you and will heal the hearts of those faithful to God," the magazine says in words translated by The Chronicle. "God and the angels are not with the infidels."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c…
Okay, who here wants to read this article and try to justify how great the Muslim religion is? Anyone?
It's the fucking 21st century, people. Religions that preach and proprogate medieval and downright EVILNESS really don't have a place on the face of this beautiful (and highly endangered) planet anymore. Can I hear the word 'evolution', anyone?
My brother-in-law's wife (who is French by the way, and said this isn't the only story she's heard, another one took place just outside of Paris fairly recently) told me about this story:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/00…
The 'nice' Muslims out there are fucking STONING women to death in the 21st century. Don't even get me started on the fucking burka thing…
Can you find passages in the bible that say the equivalent of 'kill the infidels'… surely. The difference here is: the Christians aren't taking that literally anymore. Again, this is the 21st century, we've managed to eradicate some of our more barbaric practices and our religious leaders stopped their crusades long ago.
I do believe it's entirely possible that there are many, many nice Muslims out there. But their religion is pathetic. And the extremist branch of their religion is nothing more than a bunch of Nazis. Nazis wanted everyone to be a certain way, think a certain way, act a certain way… gee, that sounds awfully familiar, now doesn't it?
Do we have to fight another world war to get rid of what is essentially nothing more than another Nazi group?
And rather can calling me all sorts of names, etc., why don't some of you address the point I'm making: the Muslim nations are allowing this to happen. Do you think if some wacky neo-Nazi group starting killing Jews here and abroad that our nation would allow it for one minute? They be squashed – tried before a jury of their peers and thrown in prison.
Show me one Muslim nation that has done anything more than 'denounce' terrorism. Show me some action, leaders of the Muslim world.
July 10, 2005 at 10:16 pm
As far as I'm concerned, they're all vermin!!
July 10, 2005 at 11:25 pm
YOu see, what you're doing here is you're mistaking your ignorant misunderstanding of a religion with what that religion actually is. It's understandable – after all, there are Christians who still buy into the palpable nonsense that all gay people are evil, and that evolution is nonsense, based purely on the Bible.
Yes, some so-called Muslims are evil psychopaths. But so are a lot of so-called Christians. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that.
For the record – I'm leaving these stupid comments up because I believe in freedom of speech. Even when that speech is ignorant and hate-filled. I do not, however, endorse any of this palpable bullshit.
July 11, 2005 at 1:08 am
>>YOu see, what you're doing here is you're mistaking your ignorant misunderstanding of a religion with what that religion actually is. It's understandable – after all, there are Christians who still buy into the palpable nonsense that all gay people are evil, and that evolution is nonsense, based purely on the Bible.
But Christians don't go around blowing people up en masse or try to bomb civilisation back into the twelfth century, do they Monkeyboy? And Christian leaders and communities are always quick to unreservedly condemn any such behaviour, quite unlike the mealy-mouthed words of 'condemnation' we've been hearing from the representatives of the Muslim community these last few days. Where, for example, are the marches by the Muslim community protesting against the recent bombings? Can we expect them soon? Or is that a 'racist' question to ask? Oh, and if you insist on equating Christian gay haters with Muslim terrorists then you are one seriously stupid motherfucker.
There's an excellent, perceptive article by The Telegraph's Charles Moore, on the trouble with Islam and the distressingly evasive words and deeds of its representatives. Do give it a read:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml…
>>For the record – I'm leaving these stupid comments up because I believe in freedom of speech. Even when that speech is ignorant and hate-filled. I do not, however, endorse any of this palpable bullshit.
Just as well, since few on here would endorse your particular line of palpable bullshit.
July 11, 2005 at 1:41 am
Treb – actually yes, there is a Muslim-organised anti-terrorism march being planned – at least, so I hear. I have no idea of the details.
As for Christian leaders' condemnation – and I hate to bring this up – remember Pius XII?
Now I'd be grateful if you could do everyone a favour and toodle off to find somebody else to bother, there's a good chap. I'm requesting very politely that you now leave my comments section alone. You aren't going to convince me, I'm not going to convince you, so stop wasting your time and mine.
July 11, 2005 at 2:16 am
More than 90% of the country�s water treatment plants and sewage trunk lines were destroyed by Tony Blair and his �brave� Tornado top guns: according to official UN figures, more than 500,000 Iraqi children died of malaria and dysentery as a direct consequence of US and British air strikes cum illegal invasion and occupation of a country that posed no threat to the West… a load of fucking bollocks… By Abdel-Khaleq Qahtan a.k.a. AK Blogger
Right, sonny Jim, how many people did Saddam kill? Let's leave aside the "we supported him 20 years ago because the Russians were a bigger threat" bullshit. The only people I've not heard complaining about our evil invasion is the Iraqis because, despite all your left-wing bullshit, they had to live under the moustachio'd menace. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com has some lovely stats on Saddam's murderous proclivities.
All of the people complaining about that war all have a vested interest. The Socialists hate it, because it's against their inward looking agenda: but then again, it's them who are maintaining the CAP and tariffs against African imports. And the Muslims in the Middle East are complaining because the one thing that scares them shitless is the idea of a democratic state (that's not Israel) in the area.
Or, I could just simply say "fuck off". It would be quicker and easier. If you have a problem with what I've said, to suggest that you come and discuss it on my blog, rather than taking up Nosemonkey's bandwidth.
July 11, 2005 at 7:41 am
Nosemonkey said,
YOu see, what you're doing here is you're mistaking your ignorant misunderstanding of a religion with what that religion actually is. It's understandable – after all, there are Christians who still buy into the palpable nonsense that all gay people are evil, and that evolution is nonsense, based purely on the Bible.
Yes, some so-called Muslims are evil psychopaths. But so are a lot of so-called Christians. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and all that.
- Yet gay people are not tortured and killed as a matter of religious law in western nations, and our evil psychopaths are shunned by society and thrown in prison, not praised as holy martyrs for flying planes into office buildings, or planting bombs on the London Underground. Are you entirely unable to make that distinction?
July 11, 2005 at 8:13 am
Silence = Death? Islam vs. Gays
February 03, 2004
The slogan "Silence = Death" has long been used by the gay community to express the idea that speaking out is a necessity for survival. Silence about what happens to gays, whether it be AIDS or discrimination, only serves to allow the problems to continue rather than be solved. So why the silence about how Islamic communities treat gays?
That's a question discussed Eric at Classical Values:
Other than blogs by gay gun nuts, where are American gays supposed to go to read about such things as Islamic attacks and Islamic attitudes on homosexuality? Do they have to have to read WorldNetDaily? … Well, why isn't the mainstream "gay movement" giving these things the attention they should? Why is there so much silence about Islamic sodomy Laws and homosexuality?
Eric quotes the Independent Gay Forum on the situation for gays under the Palestinian Authority – a situation that is probably no worse than it is for gays in other Muslim states:
According to Halevi, one young man discovered to be gay was forced by Palestinian Authority police "to stand in sewage water up to his neck, his head covered by a sack filled with feces, and then he was thrown into a dark cell infested with insects." During one interrogation Palestinian police stripped him and forced him to sit on a Coke bottle.
When he was released he fled to Israel. If he were forced to return to Gaza, he said, "The police would kill me."
An American who foolishly moved into the West Bank to live with his Palestinian lover said they told everyone they were just friends, but one day they "found a letter under our door from the Islamic court. It listed the five forms of death prescribed by Islam for homosexuality, including stoning and burning. We fled to Israel that same day," he said.
The head of a Tel Aviv gay organization told Halevi, "The persecution of gays in the Palestinian Authority doesn't just come from the families or the Islamic groups, but from the P.A. itself."
Palestinian police have increasingly enforced Islamic religion law, he said: "It's now impossible to be an open gay in the P.A." He recalled that one gay man in the Palestinian police went to Israel for a short time. When he returned to the West Bank, Palestinian Authority police confined him to a pit without food or water until he died.
A 17-year-old gay youth recalled that he spent months in a Palestinian Authority prison "where interrogators cut him with glass and poured toilet cleaner into his wounds."
Why aren't people talking more about this? It's a "taboo" subject to even do research on gay bashing among immigrants and Muslims in Germany. Apparently, when one minority suggests that another should be gassed and wiped out, that isn't worth addressing. Maybe it would be perceived as anti-Muslim to note when Muslims are trying to violently repress gays?
July 11, 2005 at 4:19 pm
You know, I didn't even think of the three communities that you mentioned… all I could think of was that the Liverpool Street-Aldgate train was 'late', the Kings Cross-Russell Square train was 'late', and that the Edgware Road-Paddington train was 'early'. Why? Because you hit three major nodes to the rest of the country in one go. The Tavistock Square bus was rerouted away from Euston, or it could've possibly caused damage there. Which could explain the odd behaviour (nerves? worry of being caught?) by the person seen to fiddle about with a bag before the bus blew up.
Nonetheless, I am glad to be part of a nation that does not go into headless-chicken mode at stuff like this. The Germans didn't manage, the Irish didn't manage, and neither will some bunch of cowardly bunch of terrorists.
July 13, 2005 at 12:23 am
Nosemonkey – well done for leaving in all the comments, freedom of speech and all that. Helps us to remember that there are always going to people out there with distorted thinking. Yes, some terrorists hide in Muslim communities – but since when did a terrorist walk around with a neon sign on their head stating that they were a terrorist. Religion has long been used as an 'excuse' for committing awful acts against other people – and no doubt this will continue for many years to come, in many religions.
Surely God does not want people being killed in His name, whoever / whatever God is to you. 'Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth' surely wasn't God recommending that we kill in revenge for killing? People like Mike (and other inconsiderate gits who have posted comments that I hope victims of 07/07/05 never read) are what the terrorists want – uniformed, naive and impulsive people who stir up further hatred. Keep your insensitive opinions to yourself – try and be more compassionate towards those involved in the horrors.
I'm not a Londoner – but I am proud of the British spirit that shone through on thursday, from people of all religions and cultures. The human spirit and mind can be an awful and destructive thing, but on the other hand it can be a wonderful and inspiring example of how humans should be. How amazing were our emergency services as well, including the way the police acted to information received in Birmingham on saturday. There is a reason we are GREAT Britain!
July 13, 2005 at 8:41 pm
I was born and raised in London, although I've not lived there for some years – I live in the U.S. I knew my fellow Londoners would take this awful bombing event in stride, just as they have historically with earlier diasters, such as WW-2 bombings, IRA bombings, etc. I also knew that, for the most part, there would not be some wholesale knee-jerk backlash against the majority of Muslims in the UK who are not terrorists and who, I am sure, abhore what has happened – after all, people of many nationalities and religions, including Muslims, died or were injured on the tube trains and the London bus. Sadly, here in the U.S. some of the population is only too willing to leap on a bandwagon of generic hatred (whether that is toward Muslims, Arabs, Hispanics…you name it), whilst other Americans keep a clear head and a wise heart. Having read the postings on this website and on other, similar ones, despite the attempts of a few to rile up Londoners to hate their fellow man, I am glad to see that it is falling on deaf ears. Big difference between hating terrorists (of whatever ilk) and just hating people because of their color, creed, nationality of origin or religion.
July 13, 2005 at 11:41 pm
Way to shove one up thier ass, Lonodon! Thisis the attitude we need to defeat terrorists! London forever!
john
Ottawa, Canada
July 22, 2005 at 9:37 am
This is just a response to Mike and his attempts to make us hate the whole Muslim community. What about Shas, Binyamin Kahane and the extremists in the Jewish community? They preach EXACTLY the same things about all non-Jews that Muslim fundamentalists preach about non-Muslims.
July 22, 2005 at 12:33 pm
" from the comments: " Someone here at work has just been phoned by a guy he knows in Canary Wharf (I know, it's a bit removed – but I trust him)
"He says marines have shot a man there who they think to have been a suicide bomber"
I've been trawling the net looking for info on the canary wharf shooting, someone I know witnessed it. Does anyone have any further info on this?